Tribe.net. Local Connections Carol http://liberalseekers.tribe.net/thread/58a911bc-975a-4d1f-abf6-24d94dcb81db 2005-06-24T21:48:39Z 2005-06-24T21:48:39Z

<div>Hello.... <br/>I checked out Liberals web site and I am not real sure exactly what your goals are? <br/>I understand perfectly what you are saying, having left a rightwing new style worship church myself just last year, but are you saying that the more traditional Churches need to fight back by starting to mimick the style - not substance of the "new rightwing" style? <br/>Carol </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://liberalseekers.tribe.net">liberal seekers</a> - 0 replies </div>

Carol 2005-06-24T21:48:39Z liberal http://liberalseekers.tribe.net/thread/f40f6beb-9950-469b-9b5a-c7e2e2b6fe0f 2004-12-26T09:50:47Z 2004-12-26T09:50:47Z

<div>Liberal seekers is looking for theologically progressive churches with seeker style worship. As we saw in the last election, besides being spritual, religion is ultimately political too. The religious left is almost invisible. Most theologically progressive churches are stuck in 1950's style worship while the theologically conservative churches rock. Why is it that theologically conservative churches are the ones that are being creative and offering alternatives? Glide is about the only exception I can find. I would really like to find churches in the East Bay but I expect others that might log on here or my liberalseekers.org site will want to find liberal seeker services elsewhere too. If you know of any progressive churches that are doing cool, alternative/ contemporary/ interesting services, please post the names of the church. Maybe we can start scheduling "tours" of churches in the bay area and write some reviews????</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://liberalseekers.tribe.net">liberal seekers</a> - 0 replies </div>

liberal 2004-12-26T09:50:47Z liberal http://liberalseekers.tribe.net/thread/f28cf9e0-c2f8-4ee6-bd34-16b401ccbd75 2004-12-26T09:43:06Z 2004-12-26T09:43:06Z

<div>Where are the theologically progressive mega-churches? Should progressive Christians care whether there are progressive mega-churches? Why should progressive churches pay attention when Time magazine announces Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback church, "the most powerful minister in America?" Why should progressive Christians care about Willow Creek Church OR Willow Creek Association? <br/> <br/>The reason we should care is that, while most theologically progressive Christian congregations dwindle and die, theologically conservative "seeker" churches reach the multitudes with user friendly rock music and powerpoint presentations. Whether you call it worship or not, seeker services give the religious right a powerful platform from which to disseminate their message of bigotry and hate. <br/> <br/>Most progressive Christians that attend progressive churches practice traditional forms of liturgical worship with the clergy in robes, standing at a formal podium, speaking down to the congregation beneath them. The music usually comes from the denominational hymnal with approved politically correct lyrics and/or 18th century organ music. Many progressive Christians like traditional worship because it is what they grew up with and even though their congregations are dwindling, they see no reason to change since their own spiritual needs are being met. They are "mature" Christians that grew up in Bible classes or catechism or other means of orientation to church life. The routine and predictability of traditional worship may be comforting in a world that often seems full of noise and chaos. <br/> <br/>Many seekers that did not spend their childhood in Sunday school and may not even have been in a church in the last twenty years would find much of traditional worship at least boring and possibly incomprehensible today. Even though a traditional service today in most U.S. churches will not be in a foreign language <br/>like Latin, it might as well be since the stories are about people with names seekers don't know, living in places seekers have never heard of using language that is often open to interpretation and sometimes just hard to understand. They see clergy draped in robes and stoles and raised above the congregation at podiums. The songs are often obscure and too complicated to sing. The sermon rambles on for thirty minutes about people and places in long ago times and far away places and doesn't have much to do with every day life of the seeker today. <br/> <br/>The Christian right understands how intimidating and/or baffling and/or boring traditional church can be for the "unchurched." They are not doing church based on what makes them most comfortable or what has the nostalgia of what church was when they were children. They do church for the seekers. They know they can't reach anyone if no one shows up. They do church based on scientific evidence of what works to reach seekers. Once they have them in the pews, they disseminate their message and have a system for integrating them into deeper levels of commitment. The Christian left needs to pay attention to the very successful evangelism efforts of the religious right. The religious right is NOT winning people over because of their bigotry. The religious right is winning people over because they speak the cultural language of the masses.They use the same kinds of rhythms that people listen to in their every day lives. They don't separate the clergy from the people with pompous robes, podiums and jargon. They are user-friendly (of course they prefer their users to be heterosexual). <br/> <br/>Traditional worship might be fine for YOU but YOU are not all that it is about. Seeker worship is about making your guests, the newcomers and the outsiders, comfortable. It is about delivering a message in a compelling way. It is about change and alternatives. It is modern. It is fresh. It is spiritual. It is video. It is powerpoint. It is emotional. <br/> <br/>Read Kimon Sergeant's definitive book "Promoting Traditional Religion in a Nontraditional way." Instead of promoting progressive religion in traditional ways, we need to also and probably more importantly, be promoting progressive religion in the nontraditional ways that Sargeant speaks of and in many other nontraditional and alternative ways that appeal to the masses. There is a culture war going on and progressive Christians must be at the front lines, not on the sidelines.</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://liberalseekers.tribe.net">liberal seekers</a> - 0 replies </div>

liberal 2004-12-26T09:43:06Z liberal http://liberalseekers.tribe.net/thread/a809a73b-5d57-4fa7-aae4-0db6abb78746 2004-12-26T09:39:46Z 2004-12-26T09:39:46Z

<div>In his book about "framing" discourse, "Don't Think of an Elephant," author George Lakoff says there are eight kinds of progressives and we all share many mutual interests and goals. <br/> <br/> 1. Socioeconomic progressives <br/> 2. Identity politics progressives.. <br/> 3. Environmentalists. <br/> 4. Civil liberties progressives. <br/> 5. Anti-authoritarian <br/> 6. Spiritual progressives have a nurturant form of religion or spirituality, their spiritual experience has to do with their connection to other people and the world, and their spiritual practice has to do with service to other people and to their community. Spiritual progressives span the full range from Catholics and Protestants to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Goddess worshippers, and pagan members of Wicca. <br/> <br/>Mr. Lakoff discusses how the various types of conservatives have put their differences aside and says that the eight different types of progressives must also put their differences aside. The political right works in concert with the religious right. The political left must do the same. The political right has learned to frame the discussion in metaphors and terms that are user friendly. <br/> <br/>The religious right has learned to present their theology in user friendly terms and popular rhythms and this is often referred to as "seeker" worship. The religious right has been able to connect with and many "unchurched Harry's" and have grown exponentially while the religious left gets smaller and smaller. When the subject of "values" are brought up during elections, the religious right dominates and controls the conversation because they use media and services that speak to the masses. Sadly, the religious left preaches to the choir. Unchurched Harry can't relate to the intellectualism or traditionalism of most liberal left churches. Unchurched Harry needs to "feel" something in church before he will be open to theological ideas and progressive concepts. <br/> <br/>Progressives lose if we allow conservatives to control the conversation either politically or spiritually. There are many websites about progressive Christians and there are many websites about new forms of worship. The MISSION of liberalseekers.org is to promote the dissemination of progressive Christian values through compelling seeker /alternative/ contemporary/ multicultural/ multigenerational services that use language, rhythms, and media technology that modern unchurched Harry's can relate to. It doesn't matter what the message is if nobody hears it.</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://liberalseekers.tribe.net">liberal seekers</a> - 0 replies </div>

liberal 2004-12-26T09:39:46Z